“A new push in a more enthusiastic spirit to the bilateral relations (between Czech Republic and Albania) was given by the official visit of Czech President Vaclav Havel to Tirana in 1999 and the return visit of his Albanian counterpart Rexhep Meidani to Prague in 2001. I would say that during the last two decades the most visible promoters of bilateral relations in everyday life have been probably the Czech tourists coming to Albania,” said Czech PhDr. Pavel Mucke
By Genc Mlloja
Senior Diplomatic Editor
“I think that there exists a wide potential for growing and cultivating the long historical traditional ties between Czech Republic and Albania,” has said PhDr. Pavel Mucke, Deputy Director of the Institute of Contemporary History of the Czech Academy of Sciences in Prague.
In an exclusive interview with Albanian Daily News Professor Mucke is of the opinion that concrete fields of exploiting the untapped potential of cooperation are the xchange of students, academics, specialists of different fields and he looked forward to more efforts in the continuation of building a sustainable and ecologically sensitive tourism sector.
In a reference to the historical course of the Albanian-Czech relationship the Professor thinks that a crucial point for the two countries, nations and societies were the events of WWI. Albanian-Czech relationship has an old background and it’s significant the fact that the two countries established diplomatic relations on July 5, 1922
Mr. Mucke revealed that after the end of the war a new born Czechoslovakia and Albania, both as the supporters of Versailles system, established very friendly relations and till 1939 Czechoslovakia was, probably surprisingly, the second biggest importer of industrial trade goods to Albania after Italy. Expressing his opinion on the course of the current ties he thinks that the most visible promoters of bilateral relations in everyday life have been probably the Czech tourists coming to Albania during the last two decades.
In the meantime the Professor dwelt on the international and domestic factors which generally deeply caused the events of the so called Velvet Revolution of November and December of 1989, which brought the fall of the communist regime. He spoke of the division of Czechoslovakia into two states saying that the peaceful creation of two state bodies- the Czech Republic and Slovakia, was a great success in that time.
Asked if those events in Czechoslovakia had an impact on other countries in Central and Eastern Europe, including Western Balkans, the Czech historian laid the stress on the difference between the events in his country and former Yugoslavia. “One important difference, which I see in comparison to the disintegration process of Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, was a different intensity of using a strictly “nationalistic” argumentation in politics, including the utilitarian “politics of memory” (with selective historical reminiscences – e. g. towards the events of WWII etc.),” he said, adding that the “black and white” mentality of former Yugoslav republics and regions had also contributed to the escalation of the conflicts into war confrontations.
According to him the creation of the Visegrad Group (V4) was mainly a reaction towards the post-Cold War era “vacuum” in Central Europe following the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and COMECON, but also a collateral response to the re-unification of Germany and the deeper integration of the Western Europe which was crowned with the establishment of EU in 1992. “The common collaboration on different levels (political, cultural etc.) in V4 is still working, but, in comparison with the situation thirty years ago because of diversification of politics on state-national levels it is much more complicated for V4 countries to find a relevant common agenda and “essential missions” for the prospect future,” he said.
In a comment on Brexit, Mr. Mucke revealed that there are different opinions towards it but in general the common stance in the country is that “Brexit cannot be a case of Czech Republic”.
Speaking of his feeling as an ordinary pro-European EU citizen, Professor Mucke said he would appreciate a start of the EU accession talks for Albania and North Macedonia. “I would be very glad for having all the WB countries in EU in the future,” said Pavel Mucke, Deputy Director of the Institute of Contemporary History of the Czech Academy of Sciences in Prague in the following interview:
– Any anniversary of the 1989 Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia the more so its 30th anniversary last November is a moment of reflection for both people of Czech Republic and Slovakia. Professor would you please share with ADN’s readers some of the highlights of the course of events which led to that historical climax?
– It can be seen that those historical events were prompted by the immediate impact of international as well as domestic factors at that time. Concerning the influence of international aspects, I think the most important fact have been the changes in USSR, the arrival of M. S. Gorbachev to the position of General Secretary of Soviet CP and his politics of “perestroika” and “glasnost”. With him a new phase of “detente policy” in international relations came, which finally brought about the end of the Soviet domination as a great power in Central and Eastern European satellite countries. Concerning the domestic (Czech-Slovak) factors, I can mention, for example, the political and mental “aging” and consequent conservatism of communist political elites, a widening and finally a lack of trustworthy ideology in official politics, a discontent of ordinary citizens towards the economic, social and ecological problems in the state and society and also a growing of a new generation of people, who had not been traumatized by the events of 1968/1969 and by the impact of the Warsaw pact Armies invasion.
These factors generally deeply caused the events of the so called Velvet (or Gentle) Revolution of November and December of 1989, which brought the fall of the communist regime.
-The division of Czechoslovakia was a follow up event with historical repercussions. Mr. Mucke, in your view, which are some of the main causes of that split and how people in both countries feel on it now after almost three decades?
-Seen from the historical retrospective, I think the main cause was the fact that the idea of Czech-Slovak federation has been created in different political conditions. The liberalization of Prague Spring in 1968 which was followed by the invasion and occupation of Czechoslovakia by the Warsaw Pact armies in August 1968 brought about the post-revolutionary transformation after 1989. On one hand, the split of Czechoslovakia has been a great failure of the new democratic political elites and a new Czech-Slovak liberal democracy as a whole and on the other the separation of the two nations and the peaceful creation of two state bodies- the Czech Republic and Slovakia, was a great success in that time.
Retrospectively we can probably agree that the next developments of both countries, in particular adhesion to NATO and EU have diminished many negative elements of the “velvet divorce”. And finally in these days the Czech Republic and Slovakia as states, and the Czechs and Slovaks as nations are integrated in much more friendly and trustfully ways than ever in history before.
-Can it be said that those events in Czechoslovakia had an impact on other countries in Central and Eastern Europe, and I have in mind ensuing developments in Western Balkans?
-I think that to some extend the process of disintegration of old structures was one the essence of the fall of so called communist or “real socialist” regimes in the entire Central and Eastern Europe. One important difference, which I see in comparison to the disintegration process of Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, was a different intensity of using a strictly “nationalistic” argumentation in politics, including the utilitarian “politics of memory” (with selective historical reminiscences – e. g. towards the events of WWII etc.).
Among other factors, according to my opinion, a higher intensity of using those types of “black and white” argumentation by the public protagonists of different sides in former Yugoslav republics and regions have also contributed to the escalation of the conflicts into war confrontations. As it has usually happened during wars in history the most suffering have been the vulnerable ordinary people.
-I have followed with interest the performance of V4 and it is not an exaggeration if I call it a success story of Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland and Hungary? Two questions: what prompted its creation and secondly which is the key of its success, and can it be a pattern to be followed by WB region?
-I think that from the historical perspective the creation of V4 structures has been among others a reaction towards the post-Cold War era “vacuum” in Central Europe following the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and COMECON, but also a collateral response to the re-unification of Germany and the deeper integration of the Western Europe which was crowned with the establishment of EU in 1992.
Seen from my personal historian´s perspective, since early 1990s till late 2000s, the main reason of existence of V4 was a sharing of the common help, coordination and acceleration of integration process to Euro-Atlantic military structures, mainly NATO, and also to adhesion and deeper integration to EU. This historical “run” has been fulfilled successfully.
The common collaboration on different levels (political, cultural etc.) in V4 is still working, but, in comparison with the situation thirty years ago because of diversification of politics on state-national levels it is much more complicated for V4 countries to find a relevant common agenda and “essential missions” for the prospect future. But I think it can be for WB countries a good model to follow, for example for the collaboration in EU accession agenda.
-How does Czech Republic feel itself in the EU when Brexit is underway and the positioning of ‘veteran’ members of the Union Vs newcomers has led to increasing harsh confrontations? How do you consider such a situation in a Union based on the fundamental values of respect for human dignity and human rights, freedom, democracy, equality, and the rule of law?
-In Czech Republic the perceptions and attitudes towards Brexit are diversified ranging from the categorical critics to enthusiast supporters. However even the Czech pro-Brexit sympathizers are adding soberly to their loud comments that it probably cannot be a case of Czech Republic.
From my personal perspective, the UK’s exit from EU is a great scar in the history of Union’s integration, and it will mean a loss for everybody. While from the historical perspective it is the essential example how not to handle the internal political problems of U. K. or, better said, personal problems of one former Prime Minister through false “internalization” of this agenda.
-As a follow up, what do you think of the split in EU regarding enlargement towards WB region and to be concrete of the failure to open accession talks with Albania and North Macedonia? According to you, is there any chance that Croatia, which has the EU Presidency, can give a push to this process the more so as an EU-WB Summit will be held in Zagreb in early May?
– I do not feel myself as an expert on political science and specialist on Western Balkan foreign policy, but, however, feeling myself as an ordinary pro-European EU citizen, I would appreciate a start of these accession talks and I would be very glad for having all the WB countries in EU in the future.
-Albanian-Czech relationship has an old background and its significant the fact that the two countries established diplomatic relations on July 5, 1922. Professor, as a seasoned historian, could you please shed some light on the reasons which led to 1922 and the progress of the bilateral ties between the two up to now?
– Although I do not pretend to be an expert on the history of the Balkan countries, I think from my limited knowledge of modern and contemporary history of this issue that a crucial point for our two countries, nations and societies were the events of WWI.
During the war, many Austrian-Hungarian soldiers of Czech origin were serving in Albania, and they gained an immediate and non-stereotypical experience with the Albanian people for the first time. After the end of the war a new born Czechoslovakia and Albania, both as the supporters of Versailles system, established very friendly relations and till 1939 Czechoslovakia was, probably surprisingly, the second biggest importer of industrial trade goods to Albania after Italy.
After WWII a new “Golden Age” of bilateral relations started in the frame of “people’s democracy” (later “communist “dictatorships) and a direct dependency on USSR, which was accompanied by political, economic, scientific, and cultural collaboration, including studies of several Albanians at universities in Czechoslovakia, which came to the decline and interruption after 1961 because of Soviet-Albanian clash.
Despite the fall of communist regimes in both countries in early 90s the bilateral relations were re-established a little bit slowly. But a new push in a more enthusiastic spirit to the bilateral relations was given by the official visit of Czech President Vaclav Havel to Tirana in 1999 and the return visit of his Albanian counterpart Rexhep Meidani to Prague in 2001. I would say that during the last two decades the most visible promoters of bilateral relations in everyday life have been probably the Czech tourists coming to Albania.
-Do you think that there are untapped potential in diversifying these relations giving more meaning to economic cooperation and of course to cultural exchanges as a way to bring the two people closer?
-Exactly! I think that there exists a wide potential for growing and cultivating the long historical traditional ties.
It comes to my mind for example the exchanges of students, academics, specialists of different fields and I look forward to more efforts in the continuation of building a sustainable and ecologically sensitive tourism sector./ADN
