Promotion of the book “Fethullah Gülen, a life in service”, author, Dr. Jon Pahl
Exclusive interview with the author Dr. Jon Pahl exclusively for Argumentum.al
By Marjana Doda
Editor- in- chief
“I’m not a Gülenist, I’m a practicing Christian—and happy to be one! The label of “terrorist” for Gülen is propaganda. It’s an Orwellian “big lie.” It’s like calling Gandhi a “terrorist.” The Turkish President has weaponized that language to prop up his fragile and failing regime, and to bury corruption inquiries that were coming close to him and his family.”
This is what Dr. Jon Pahl, the author of the book “Fethullah Gülen, a life in service”, said in an exclusive interview with Argumentum.al during which he confessed that the Hizmet (service) movement inspired by Gülen is truly global – on every continent. “I hope the book explains who Mr. Gülen is, fairly, based on the evidence. I’m a historian of religions trained at the University of Chicago, so I bring to all of my research a commitment to careful study of evidence, cause and effect—the scientific study of religions,” he said.
According to him, Gülen has never supported a particular party, rather he has supported political leaders in Turkey from many parties – and encouraged them all to strengthen democracy.
Dr. Pahl revealed that Gülen never endorsed Erdogan; there wasn’t a real friendship at all. “Some people inspired by Gülen no doubt supported Erdogan, who at one point said a lot of nice things about being a supporter of democracy.”
Asked about the possibility of achievement of religious peace in the world, Dr. Pahl maintained that the engagement of religious leaders in fostering greater peace, like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., Gülen, and the Liberian Nobel Prize laureate Leymah Gbowee, is the single most important story in the history of religions in the 20th and early 21st century that most people don’t know!
Dr. Pahl has visited Albania three times and each time he has seen progress in understanding across traditions. “I think the Hizmet movement has helped with that, and I hope that the interreligious collaboration at the heart of modern Albania will continue to grow and develop,” said Dr. Jon Pahl, author of the book “Fethullah Gülen, a life in service” in the following interview:
–Marjana Doda: Dr. Jon Pahl, first of all thank you for this exclusive interview with the online media Argumentum.al. You were in Tirana on June 6 promoting the book “Fethullah Gülen, a life in service”, to the Albanian reader. An American historian, theologian and above all a Christian, who writes the first critical biography of a Muslim cleric from Turkey. Mr. Pahl, what triggered you to write this biography of Fethullah Gülen?
–Dr. Jon Pahl: Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you! I came to this biography after having completed in 2010 a book entitled Empire of Sacrifice: The Religious Origins of American Violence. That was a difficult project, because it focused on how religions can be perverted and turned to violence. I began researching religious peacebuilders, among them Gülen, because I was looking for a happier topic! Obviously, things turned out differently in the story than I anticipated when I began working on Gülen.
–After many years of studying the figure of Gülen and after the publication of this book. Are you a “Gülenist”? Are you are afraid of the other side that anathematizes the Gulenist movement because as it is known the Turkish President called it a terrorist organization after 2016?
I’m not a Gülenist, I’m a practicing Christian—and happy to be one! The label of “terrorist” for Gülen is propaganda. It’s an Orwellian “big lie.” It’s like calling Gandhi a “terrorist.” The Turkish President has weaponized that language to prop up his fragile and failing regime, and to bury corruption inquiries that were coming close to him and his family.
– By practically moving towards the USA it seems that Gülen’s movement has internationalized itself. The Turkish Diaspora everywhere in the world has joined this movement, even in Albania. How much does this book help understand Fethullah Gülen more?
Yes, the Hizmet (service) movement inspired by Gülen is truly global—on every continent. I hope the book explains who Mr. Gülen is, fairly, based on the evidence. I’m a historian of religions trained at the University of Chicago, so I bring to all of my research a commitment to careful study of evidence, cause and effect—the scientific study of religions.
–What does Gülen and the global Hizmet movement include? Is it a political vision or a social and religious approach? Is this movement a religious power that is confronting Erdogan’s political power?
To understand Gülen politically is to misunderstand, or to misrepresent, him. He’s never endorsed a candidate. He’s never supported a particular party. He’s supported political leaders in Turkey from many parties—and encouraged them all to strengthen democracy. He’s a religious scholar and preacher, and the movement he inspired is a civil society movement focused on education, interreligious dialogue, and social enterprise—not on gaining political power. They’ve been scapegoated by the current regime.
–Erdogan-Gulen clash has transferred this conflict from Turkey to other countries, especially after 2016 when Erdogan blamed Gülen for being behind the failed July 15, 2016 coup in Turkey. Even Turkish President Erdogan demanded during his last visit to Albania that the latter should take action against the Gülenists. Which is your comment on such an international persecution now in the 21st century?
It is persecution, and it’s tragic for Turkey and wherever the Turkish leaders try to persecute people of Hizmet—which they are doing all over the globe. Those people are, in my experience, sincere advocates of nonviolence—and they will be excellent contributors to any society that welcomes them. It makes no sense that a Muslim scholar in Pennsylvania who doesn’t have a computer could orchestrate a coup attempt. I believe we need to look at who benefited from that coup-event, which many think was staged (we don’t have access to the documents to know for sure), and that would be Mr. Erdogan, who called it the day after “a gift from God.” The current regime has shut down newspapers and other media outlets, closed businesses and seized their assets, imprisoned innocent people, and forced others to flee. It’s truly been bad for Turkey, and a series of human rights violations.
-In your view, after all this study on Gülen’s life and movement, why do politics and religion fight each other? I mean in this case the friendship of a cleric with a politician (Erdogan- Gülen) which turned into so much enmity that today the cleric Gülen is in exile.
Gülen never endorsed Erdogan; there wasn’t a real friendship at all. Some people inspired by Gülen no doubt supported Erdogan, who at one point said a lot of nice things about being a supporter of democracy. He’s shown otherwise recently. Religion is often perceived by tyrants as a threat to their power, because religions give individuals and communities a source of peace and comfort (and a source of revenue) that tyrants can’t control. In fact, at their best, religions can hold politicians accountable to moral values, and can support political culture in growing trust and justice.
-Religious tolerance and harmony is the greatest value of Albania. However, inter-religious divisions are still great in the world. In this biographical book you emphasize the fact that Gülen is a man of religious dialogue, he was willing to sit down to talk and meet any cleric. How much possible is it to achieve religious peace in the world?
I believe religions will work together in the very near future to help us solve many of the problems facing humanity—such as climate change. Gülen has definitely been an advocate of dialogue. People inspired by him will work with anybody on projects of merit that serve the common good. The engagement of religious leaders in fostering greater peace, like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., Gülen, and the Liberian Nobel Prize laureate Leymah Gbowee, is the single most important story in the history of religions in the 20th and early 21st century that most people don’t know! There are lots of potential religious peacebuilders out there. They aren’t, however, well organized yet; but the Hizmet movement is helping to organize them.
-Which are the values and ideals that you have encountered in the figure of Gülen that you can recommend to the younger generation?
Gülen has always taught young people to LIVE FOR A CAUSE. Too often, young people can feel despair: there are lots of problems in the world, and in society. It can seem overwhelming. But if a young person finds something they are passionate about, and commits to it, they can make a huge difference. People inspired by Gülen have founded schools in hundreds of places, and they’ve grown a global movement—in just a few decades. It’s extraordinary—and it started with young people! I’m happy to say there’s also a new generation of leaders emerging. Gülen was born in 1938, and he is frail. But there are young people coming to the fore—including in Albania, who have some great ideas and energy!
– At the end of this interview, do you have a message to Albanians, let them be members of the Gülen movement or not?
I’ve visited Albania three times, now, and each time I’ve seen progress in understanding across traditions. I think the Hizmet movement has helped with that, and I hope that the interreligious collaboration at the heart of modern Albania will continue to grow and develop. Albania is important globally—as an example of a pluralist democracy. I also hope religious people will work to hold government accountable to be honest and transparent—to support the best of humanity. I see so much potential in this beautiful country and its beautiful people, as you continue to heal from the trauma of the Communist decades, and as you grow into the strong, modern, and pluralist society that can be a beacon in the Balkans for peace. I’d love to come back soon!
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